From ICOCinfo, I've learned that LA has released a FAQ of sorts regarding their statement.
They didn't answer my one-word question, though. :-)
I think that the first question speaks volumes:
1. What exactly are you asking us to sign up for?So, all you're asking is to say that you believe in, stand for and will practice those 2 pages (containining, by my count, some 39 individual items) of beliefs, practices and brotherhood? (My rewording of question 2, listed in the Q&A simply as "That's it?")
A: We are simply calling for those churches that are unified on the statement of beliefs, practices, and brotherhood to begin the process of rebuilding a stronger and more unified brotherhood.
A: That's it.Yes, I'm being a little sarcastic here, but let's look at the whole picture, please. It's not as simple as that answer tries to make it.
To be fair, there is some good clarification in there, most of it regarding the nitty gritty operations of the steering committee. They do say they are not looking to define who's in or who's out or to exclude folks based on the unwillingness to sign on, and I believe them. But in practice, I don't see how this will not lead to some level of isolation and division. Perhaps it won't be catastrophicly divisive, but it will, by it's nature, divide the larger group for the sake of some unitiy - or unifomity - in a smaller group. Just as the creation of the ICOC did to the COC, just as the various beliefs of the COC (one cup or many, musical instruments, kitchens in church, etc.) have divided it and just as individual denominations over the centuries have done (ever counted how many flavors of Baptist there are, just to mention one?) over and over again.
In a response to a response to your previous post (:)), you asked, "Why?"
I think it has to do with wanting some sort of identification, a sense of belonging. Without an Official Membership List that has Their Name on it, they think they aren't a part of it. We met a gal at church Sunday from the San Francisco ICOC who commented about how great it was to feel safe (not her words) coming to an affiliate in Albuquerque and I didn't quite know how to tell her I thought Russ was off his rocker. Of course, this concept is completely foreign to what we read in Acts.
But note that the so-called "Anti's" in the CoC (the one cup, etc guys) don't need a list or charter or Affirmation (or whatever) to draw lines and refer to everyone else as "in error" or however else you want to put it.
It really does, to me, get down to just how Evil a Test Of Fellowship can be. In fact, one could argue that Having Nothing To Do with Kip and his minions is drawing a Line In The Sand as much as he's doing and may be the Plank In Our Own Eyes. Mixaphorically speaking, of course. :)
Doug, I think the answer to "why" is the only answer that is needed.
Why add 1 or 4 or 39 seperate items that must be followed or agreed to?
Why do we need anything but the scriptures?
Why do we feel it is necessary?
Why are man-made rules more important than God's?
There are a lot of why's in one thought.
We are commanded to not add or take away from God's word - His word are His commands.
If we follow Christ's teachings, these things will be visible through our love and actions - they are not things that must be commited to, but are a result of our faith.
Regardless of the noble intentions this may be derived from - I do not think it is righteous, wise or valuable to start making distinctions again within the body. These distinctions are man-made and not (from my study of the scriptures) what God is truly focused on.
Doug -
I enjoy reading the comments on your site. I don't get out here very often but when I do I enjoy it. I wanted to make a few comments about what I've read concerning "Why".
I remember reading somewhere about a group of people that had been in captivity for several years and the opportunity was given for them to leave captivity and head to a much better place. The journey was not without its struggles. In the midst of their journey the focus became more on the struggles than what lie ahead. The cries came up from the people, "We should have stayed in Egypt". Surely Egypt was better than the present struggles they were facing. And maybe in some ways it was. But neither could compare to what God had prepared for them to enjoy. Because of a lack of faith, only a few were priviledged to enjoy the promised land. The rest died in the wilderness. What a missed opportunity for so many.
"Why?" a list? Because Egypt seems better than our current struggles. It is much easier to lead a group of people by a set of rules than to invest the time and energy to let each individual have their own faith. And then to accept them for where they are and grow together even though we are not at the same place is more difficult. That is why the Holy Spirit said to "make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace". It takes every effort for us to grow when we allow people to be at their own faith level and not at my faith level.
As you know, I was in the ICOC and you probably remember a meeting we were in when a brother was considering leaving. My advice at the time was for him to stay. At the time, even though the struggles were great, I felt we were focused on helping people realize their own personal faith and we were willing to teach them how to live by their faith. Since then, I have left. Why? Because it became clear to me that that was not the case. I started hearing "Egypt was better than this". Instead of focusing on a faithful God who could lead us to a better place, we could only see the struggles and figured the results seemed better in Egypt. What a missed opportunity. That's why I left. Maybe that brother I encouraged to stay got to where I am well before me. And as a "good sold out disciple" I convinced him to accept my faith level and hang in there. If that is the case, I apologize.
One last thought concerning the story of the people in captivity. Before they left, the leader of Egypt said go ahead and worship your God, but stay here in the land. Moses response was, that wouldn't be right. We must get out. When staying in the land compromises the desires of God, then it is time to get out. One sister in disagreement with our leaving boldly said, "I'm going to stay and fight to the bitter end". That didn't sound much like the abundant life that Jesus came to give us. And God's advice to Moses wasn't "stay and fight to the bitter end". It was "We're out of here".
I have a bond to the people in the ICOC that is not just the "spiritual blood line" but also a "Physical blood line". And it concerns me greatly to read the comments of Kip and other church leaders that are "signing up" to go back to Egypt.
The journey out will not be without its struggles. But God is faithful and in due time a harvest of righteousness and peace awaits.
Because of the cross - BFM
Bryant - I can't tell you how encouraged I am to see your comments. I think about you guys regularly and miss you greatly. (You sent me something 2 months ago, and I never responded. Please forgive me!) We need to get together again soon.
I think you are spot on in your thoughts. The past was flawed, but it's comfortable and easy. The way forward has more promise, but also more risks and more work.
Thanks for you words, and don't be a stranger. :-)