The other shoe has dropped in regard to Mr. McKean. Another letter to Kip has been posted at Disciples Today in the 'paid only' section of the site. It will reportedly be made public at a later time. The letter points out that Kip has never responded to the prior letter (the Portland response to the previous letter was not from Kip, but from the Portland leadership.) In fact, since that time he's been uncharacteristically silent, no postings at all from Kip on the Portland web site. In light of that silence and of the continuing theme coming from there, these, now 84, leaders have announced that they will have no fellowship with him until he repents.
I'm both encouraged by this and ambivalent. Pinakidion has some great thoughts about the 13 'Convictions' listed in the letter. That's up from 10 in the first one, he points out, and the additions are a little troubling. Why do ICOC leaders have the thing about telling people who to date and marry, I wonder? Pinakidion, though, goes farther than that and questions the need for and the wisdom in lists of common beliefs or convictions like this. There is great value in individuals or even individual congregations searching these things out, but beyond that they only serve to divide.
Anywho, that's the latest. I'm getting a little tired of this whole thing, so I hope it's over. Probably not quite yet, but maybe we're close.
> Pinakidion, though, goes farther than that and
> questions the need for and the wisdom in lists of
> common beliefs or convictions like this.
Carl Ketcherside has some interesting things to say about creeds in the article currently linked from clarkecomments.com.
Any creed that is shorter than the Bible itself is a simplification that necessarily omits relevant information. Usually a creed also introduces things not found in the Bible, codifying the wisdom of man as a basis for fellowship and incurring the condemnation of vain worship from Mark chapter 7.
Creeds pour concrete around our current understanding, inhibiting us from learning something new. If our current understanding is incomplete or contains fallacies, the creed makes those errors a permanent part of our faith and practice.
Creeds inherently create factions. Gal 5:19-21 lists factions as one of the things that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom of God.
I am saddened by this. Unfortuantley, this now has spurred and fueled the debate on Christianity in many circles. It puts unneccessary doubt into the minds of people. We continue to divide instead of unite...
I do not agree with Kip. I think his methods are hurtful - but at the same time - I find it hard for us as human beings to sit in judgement over one man's motives. His actions, maybe - but only God knows his heart.
The Bible is clear on who we fellowship with - and yet I would not be so bold as to take responsibility to disfellowship anyone. Only through love and patience can this be resolved - and it appears that no one has this in the ICOC group of leaders.
There are many men who I still have admiration for on the list of 84 leaders - but it is disheartneng to know that because Kip has not repented in the way they demand, or in the timeframe they require - that now all doors are shut until he does.
Anyway - it is a sad time for us all.
JohnE - I too am saddened by this. There are far more pressing things to be concerned with than these squabbles between men. But it seems that men are determined to start these kind of fights and it would be foolish to simply ignore the situation.
I'm not sure I'd characterize this as a 'dis-fellowship' situation. As I read this I see it as notice of these 84 men saying they will have no fellowship with Kip. There is no marking, no instruction to stay away from him. DT is down for maintenance at the moment so I cannot verify that, but I think there was only mention of instructions to their members about what he was up to. A subtle difference, yes, but an important one I think.
I'd also not say that they have closed 'all doors' of fellowship. Their indication was that they would have no fellowship. It's as if the door between them has been closed and they will not go through it. However, if he chooses to come through to them, in repentance, I suspect that they would welcome him.
I think that there is a place for leaders to publicly comment on other leader's unrepentant sin to protect the flock. Paul mentions several men by name in his letters, warning the congregation of their ungodly behavior. The fact that there are 84 men in agreement here lends weight to the point. If it were one man contending against another, it would not carry as much weight.
I'd like to offer a different perspective.
To me the sad thing is that Kip has not listened to this overwhelming consensus of mature leaders who have had close personal relationships with Kip for many years. I believe the compelling motivation for these signers was to protect their churches from a perceived danger. Given that perception, I think they had to do what they did.
Many people just wish this whole conflict would go away. But if your congregation was suffering a church split you would probably wish something had been done earlier in an effort to prevent it.
Just another point of view for consideration...
Alan
Alan - You've said what I was, unsuccessfully, trying to get at at the end of my comment, only much more succinctly. Thank you.
Alan, I have been through splits and reconstructions and the lot. You are right it is good to know ahead of time - and yet there were always people trying to prevent it or heal it - its just now we have the World Wide Web where we can globaly mark an individual. And I do think it is marking. Would you fellowship with someone your leader was not fellowshipping with? That's a tough one - so in essence they have marked him.
I do not disagree with their comments, or their desire for true repentance. I do not agree with Kips whole system - so perhaps it is for the best that this is done - only time and Gd knows for sure.
In any event, I am not wise enough to see all the angles to this - It just is disheartening to see men of God who are forced to make such a decision.