Wow, has it been over three weeks since my last Quiet Time Journal entry? Yep. I'm not a fan of the 'Quiet Time is your relationship with God' model, but over three weeks without sitting with your face in God's word isn't good either. Thanks to our minister, Doug Geyer, for his message on Sunday (unfortunately not recorded) that challenged me to get back on track.
Romans 8:1 - Three weeks later and this verse still is an amazing comfort to a weary soul. No condemnation.
Romans 8:2-8 - I always looked at this as those in the flesh are non-Christinas or perhaps Christians not living right and those in the spirit as those doing the right things. But now I see that Paul isn't contrasting the 'ins' verses the 'outs' here, but contrasting, as he has throughout Romans, two different mindsets.
The mindset of the flesh is to use law or rules of man to get close to God, the mindset of the spirit trusts in and relies on Jesus completely. The flesh says God expects me to do X, Y and Z to be with Him, the spirit says God longs to be with me and through Jesus I can be with him, so I'm going to do X, Y and Z because I know it pleases Him.
It's a radically different way of thinking. One works, the other simply can't.
Romans 8:15 confirms this: "For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"" The way of the flesh is one of fear. If I don't live up to the demands of God, I will be punished, so I'll work to earn his favor. The spirit of sonship says I already have his favor, so I'll act like it.
Romans 8:28 - The ESV words this a little differently than the NIV that I've read for so long. The difference is small, but the change in meaning is profound:
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.(ESV)And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.(NIV)
The NIV seems to imply that God is behind the scenes, pulling the strings, working things out for out good. The ESV doesn't say that God is working, but that the things work for our good. When I read the ESV version, I think that perhaps it isn't that God is stacking the deck on our pehalf (which is how the standard NIV interpretation feels), but rather that because we love God, our mindset allows us to see things in a new light, a light that allows them to 'work together for good'.
Then again, maybe it's the closet deist in me coming out again. What do you make of this passage and the differences in translations?
Romans 8:31-39 - I love this passage, as many do. The contrast between the call to suffer earlier (Romans 8:17-18) and the certainties of Romans 8:38-39 is profound. He does not promise, as too many modern preachers will, that our lives will be free from pain. No, rather he tells us plainly that we will suffer more from following Christ, but the love that God has lavished on us through Jesus is incomparable to anything that we suffer here.
On the question of Romans 8:28 - when in doubt, I go directly to the Greek.
Unfortunately, I know nothing about Greek other than the names of some of the letters, so I go to a literal translation like Young's ("And we have known that to those loving God all things do work together for good, to those who are called according to purpose;")
or to Green's ("But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;").
Sometimes it helps; sometimes it doesn't.
Remembering that there was no punctuation in the original Greek, I get a little more of the sense of the order of the words. But having no knowledge of Greek syntax, that's as far as it goes.
The simplicity of the wording usually helps, though. Sometimes it helps to know the tense (which differs in two places in the two literal translations, but only in the latter phrase in the ESV/NIV). So all I've really done is muddy the water even more.
Context is ALWAYS important though, so it's vital not to lift the single verse thumbnail out of the big, big picture. And the really big picture here seems to be prayer, to me.
Sometimes it just helps to try to phrase the same thought so that it has the richest possible meaning - which is what J.B. Phillips or The Message seeks to do, I think. But I was talking about actually doing it myself.
So what's the Brenton paraphrase?
Prologue, v. 26-27: "Even though we are powerless and don't know how to pray, the Spirit does know because He knows us and prays for us and with us because God wants Him to."
v. 28-30: "So we can be confident that God works for our good, because we love Him and have been called by His purpose. For He has always had it in mind for us to be like Jesus, the Firstborn among all His children. And because He had this in mind for us, He called us; and after He called us, He justified us; and after He justified us, He glorified us."
Epilogue, v.31-32: "So how do we respond to all this? If God is for us - and He is! - what else matters? If He gave up His Son for us - and He did! - how could He not want to graciously give us everything else we need!?!?"
And the rest - as you say - speaks pretty clearly for itself, no matter which translation you read!
And now, I realize I've left out a key phrase:
v. 28-30: "So we can be confident that God works for our good in every way, because we love Him and have been called by His purpose. For He has always had it in mind for us to be like Jesus, the Firstborn among all His children. And because He had this in mind for us, He called us; and after He called us, He justified us; and after He justified us, He glorified us."
Great insight on 8:28 from you and Keith.. would it be safe to say that divine providence might be a bit different for those that love and those who don't? If not then the ESV might be the better translation.
Please read this very interesting article I found for a slightly different perspective on this verse, which I am also seeking guidance to understand more ...
http://www.mbseminary.edu/files/download/geddert1.htm?file_id=12815136
Michael - That's a fascinating, and enlightening, look at that passage.
I must say, it makes a lot more sense and fits in perfectly with the NT themes of God at work and we working for and with Him.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing that.